I Am Me
Celebrating people and their passions because nobody can do it like you can.
I love that everyone has a story that is unique to them. Our journeys are all different, but we can still learn so much from one another. I am grateful that through my own journey as an actor I have had the opportunity to meet so many incredible people.
On my podcast you will get to hear their stories. This podcast is for the dreamers and the inspired. For the people who love people and are completely uninterested in living life by the status quo. Every person is unique to who they are. So look in the mirror and say it loud:
I AM ME!!!
I Am Me
Ep 12: I am Nina Defrancisco: All about Mind-Body Integration: The Missing Link Between Knowing and Being
Why is it that we can read all the self-help books, listen to every podcast, and try every workshop… but still feel stuck? Therapist and coach Nina DeFrancisco breaks down why knowing something isn’t the same as living it—and what’s missing when we treat healing like another hustle checklist.
We talk about how easy it is to stack meditation, journaling, and exercise on top of our to-do list without actually shifting what’s happening inside. Nina shares simple grounding practices you can use anywhere to come back to the present. She also digs into how the “protective identities” we’ve built—those versions of ourselves we created to stay safe—can quietly block us from real change, no matter how much we think we’ve learned.
The biggest growth doesn’t happen in your head—it happens in how you show up in real life, in your relationships, in those tiny moments when you choose to respond differently. Nina reframes nervous system regulation in such a refreshing way: it’s not about avoiding stress, it’s about building the flexibility to move through it and come back to balance.
If you’ve been feeling stuck on the self-help hamster wheel or craving a gentler, more integrated approach, this episode will feel like a deep breath.
✨ Connect with Nina on Instagram @mindbodynina
or at humansunplugged.com
Hey everybody, welcome back to. I Am Me, my name is Liz Bachman, I am your host and today I have a super special guest, nina DeFrancisco. She's actually my therapist, but she's a holistic therapist, which means she focuses very heavily on the mind-body connection so that we can integrate all this stuff that we learn via self-help books, self-help podcasts and in our therapy sessions and actually get that integrated into our body. She is very, very smart, she's been through a lot, she has her own coaching business as well, and she has a beautiful community called Humans Unplugged. But I really just wanted to sit down with her to get some of this amazing information that she has out to the people that listen to my show. So, with all that said, let's dive into today's episode. I cannot wait for you guys to hear this one. All right, so we are diving in with Nina DeFrancisco. Did I do that right? Yeah, I'll do that better when I do the intro. So first, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:Nina, I'm doing really good. It's lunch, been enjoying my day.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I reached out to Nina, full disclosure, yesterday to ask her kind of what she wanted to talk about, because she is a bottomless pit of knowledge in my opinion. So I wanted to know kind of where her head is at and I that's how I prepped for this interview today. So I'm going to let you kind of recap that and then we'll dive into the actual interview around that. So recap, just let, if you let everybody know, kind of like what you're practicing or what you're with therapy and coaching and stuff like that, what you're actually seeing, what you're with therapy and coaching and stuff like that, what you're actually seeing working. Because I feel like we get so bombarded in the health and wellness space and mental health space about this and that and that. But yesterday you mentioned there's a lot of external stuff that people are doing which is part of the work. But if you actually want to see a shift inside of yourself, I'm losing my. I'll let you go from there because it's your work.
Speaker 2:I think this is such an exciting conversation because I think there's so many tools out there for health, healing, wellness and so many of them are so valuable.
Speaker 2:But I think for a lot of people, and especially people who intellectualize a lot and get stuck in their head a lot, a lot of the courses and advice out there isn't considering people who intellectualize, which is a lot of people right, like that's kind of bypassed in the teaching of things. I'm like, hi, that's how I started working with you, and I think what's hard about that is that there is so much good information out there. But then there's the question of are you the right person at the right time for that information? Is that information that you can actually take and integrate into your life? Or is this information that's going to feed more into this barrel of things that you now know but don't actually know in your body? You don't actually have it integrated. You haven't actually gained this wisdom on your own. It's just something that you learn from somebody else. You know it to be true somewhere deep inside, but you haven't actually gone through fully learning that thing spiritually and physically, literally in your body, like muscle memory.
Speaker 1:Now, when you I do want to talk about that because I hear that a lot more and more like people talking about great, you all this knowledge, but you need to embody it or feel it in your body. What does that actually look like? Because I think people who intellectualize this stuff are like great check, how do we get this in our body? So what does that actually look like when you're saying I want to get this, like you got to get this in your body, all this information that we have up in our heads?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I don't think about it as much as like taking the information and then like getting it all integrated from mind to body.
Speaker 2:I think about it more as like, if we put all of that information aside for a second, where are you actually at in your life right now?
Speaker 2:How do you actually feel, how do you actually see yourself and how do you actually see the things in your life?
Speaker 2:But if you put all of those things to the side, because we can bypass so much of what we feel and so much of our experience by constantly going up into the head and jumping into those things but what happens when you do go back down into your experience and what that would look like is, instead of talking about a lot of people will say well, I know, I should feel like this because by now you know, like I'm kind of at the point in my life where hold on, cut, cut, cut. How do you actually feel in this present moment? And letting there be some space for that and letting there be time to process that instead of the this is where you should be, or this is what you think is right, or this is where you want to be, or for the past 10 years you've been in this place. All of that is relevant in some way, but if we don't first go into what's happening right now, then we're going to be stuck somewhere else and stuck in these endless loops and cycles for so long.
Speaker 1:So when you, I feel like a lot of people talk about tuning into the present moment, but I think people genuinely don't know how to do that. Like if you, if we were talking to someone who had just been gorging themselves on self-help books, but none of it is transpiring, what would you recommend for someone actually getting into the present moment?
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, I like that. You're getting super practical and that's what's really needed. That's you literally getting in the present moment, in this moment, and I think there's a lot of different tools that you can use, a lot of different somatic tools, but grounding tools are really important and I think, especially for people who intellectualize grounding tools can feel like somebody offering you a lollipop at the bank. I'm a grown up, what do you mean? Like grounding tools, what do you mean? I'm too far along for these things. I don't need that. But grounding might look like, you know, there's like the 5-4-3-2-1 technique where it's like what are five things you can see around you? And it's like really getting you into your senses, pulling you out of the analytical problem solving mind and back into what's actually around you Can you look at, can you identify things in your environment? Can you, you know, name four things that you can hear? Can you name four things that you can hear? Can you name three things that you can feel? Two things that you can smell, one that you can?
Speaker 1:taste. Part of the reason I want to interview you is because I want to get actual practical things that if someone has no idea what to do because I was the person and I still very much am unlearning, the gorging myself on self-help and love help podcasts and all that crap, and I feel like a lot of people are doing that but then I mean we've talked about in our sessions before. Then you just have this bowl of information. You're like what the F do I do with all this shit? So I one of the things I wanted to when I like interviewing you today was actually give people practical things of what does embodiment mean when we hear that?
Speaker 1:Or I also want to talk to you a little bit about you know, we hear a lot of the inner child work, shadow work, meditation. You mentioned yesterday going to the gym, eating a better diet, all these, which are all these should things right, these things that we're told we should be doing, but then we're not feeling any type of internal change. I'm just going to open the floor and let you talk about that, because I think that is so relevant today.
Speaker 2:Should we talk about practical tools first, or do you want to talk about the second thing first?
Speaker 1:More about like this yeah, you're in therapist coach mode, which I love. It'll make this go smoother. Let's talk about practical tools and then we'll kind of like dive into like that yeah, that was me kind of jumping ahead, but let's talk about some practical tools Because I think that's so needed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally agree, and I think 54321, one of the of the most popular somatic grounding tools. Another one that I use for my clients this is something that I just used for myself for so many years and that I ended up sharing mostly in my community, but I've recently started sharing it with some clients too is BGSP. It's a little acronym to remember anywhere any time of day, and the B stands for breath, and when people think of breath, a lot of the time they go straight to this big inhale and, okay, let me take this really deep breath. And sure, we want to make sure we're not breathing shallow. But in this context, breath is literally just noticing your breath.
Speaker 2:You don't have to change anything, because even just bringing attention to that naturally allows you to focus on something that is sustainable. It allows you to focus on something that is with you all the time and you don't have to go straight into well, how can I do this better? But just to, I'm breathing, how am I breathing? Nice, and just feeling that. And then, after spending a couple seconds noticing, then starting to say, okay, well, what if I breathed a little bit deeper and slower? Then how do I feel?
Speaker 2:Not with any type of expectation, but just this curiosity and this tuning in, and after you've kind of just spent a little bit of time there. And again, I like this because it's something you can do at home, or it's something you can do on the train yeah. On the bus. Or walking down the street yeah, I do this when I'm walking down the street all the time, and then moving to G, which is gaze, and when we're in fight or flight, our eyes, our eye movement is really quick and it's very narrow, so we tend to look ahead of us and we tend to not have much side to side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just like again, we're not trying to do anything or force anything major, we're just bringing attention to. Can I soften my gaze a bit and like slowly look around and like even blink slowly a bit? And like slowly look around and like even blink slowly. And then, if we move over to S, is stillness. And again, a lot of people think of stillness and they think that this literally means not moving at all, which it can mean that. But stillness in this context is there is something inside of you that is always still, that's never moving, that's always there. Can you locate that sense in you? It's not something you have to find in the sense of creating it, it's something that's already there. Can you kind of tap into that a little bit?
Speaker 2:And then P is posture. Again, a lot of people hear posture and they do this thing, yeah, this Straight up, right, just like people put their chest out because that's what they think feels really straight. But posture just being, a lot of the time we're in a conversation, we're sitting, we're working and we don't even realize that, like the pressure that we're putting on our legs, our feet, our back is actually really uncomfortable because we're so in our heads that we're not focusing on the sensations in the body at all. So posture in this context is literally just can you move yourself into a position that actually feels nice for you and actually pay attention? Are you sitting really scrunched up and like your back is actually in this position that if you stay here for another 10 minutes it's going to end up giving you back pain later? Or, if you're leaning on your hip in a certain way, are you going to be like, oh, where did I get this hip? Ache Hip pain. What do?
Speaker 2:I have on this I have no idea where it came from, because I was so out of it when I was sitting that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think too and correct me if I'm wrong but with that BGSP, it sounds like slowness comes into play a lot, which I think actually leads us into the next thing that I brought up, because I feel like we've taken mental health and made it hustle culture in a way. Okay, all right, I have my job, I have this and now I have my mental health checklist and we're going to do our meditation or journaling or, you know, go to the gym, do our yoga, whatever, and it's like the check, check, check, check, check. So I think, like just hearing what you're saying slowness all of that was what you were doing was slow, checking in slowly, and not even you saying checking in with posture and not being like upright, but like just actually checking in and being like what's my posture like? Or checking in with your breath and not immediately, like taking a deep breath. Like that really leads into that Like hustle culture of health and wellness, like, oh, time to take a deep breath, you know, like instead of just being where's my breath at right now.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yeah. I want to just open up the floor for your thoughts on all this and just how to help people shift out of it. I know in our sessions before we've talked, you're like if journaling doesn't work for you, why are you journaling? You know it's not. I guess it's not that these things are bad things, but the way that we are using them in our day-to-day life might not actually be benefiting us. I just want to get your insight on that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it does lead so well into this next topic because the way that I see it, I'm a very visual person and I really like analogies, so I picture somebody sitting in a chair. This is going to be such an odd image no, it's fine, we're here for it. Somebody sitting in a chair, right, and imagine this like really big monster with its mouth open underneath you Okay, okay, I got it Locked in Okay, really big monster with its mouth open underneath you and you're kind of just like sitting on its tongue almost okay anything that you do, anything you add to your routine.
Speaker 2:I don't care if it's the most spiritual ass shit, the thing that the person you admire the most recommended to you, if it's the thing that has been sworn by for 10 000 years or if it has all the scientific research behind it. Most of the time, as long as that monster is underneath you, anything you take on is going to end up in that monster's mouth. Right, it's going to eat it up. Yeah, because you're sitting on top of it Like there's no way around it, because the monster is still there. Yes, what is the actual monster? It's not actually a monster, right, it's like our self-protection, right, but I think the best word to call it is identity. So, as long as you are somebody who needs to be the person who keeps it all together, or you're the person who doesn't rock the boat because you're the nice one and nobody dislikes you, and you're the person who you know like, doesn't stir anything up, or maybe you're the person who is really strong and doesn't express vulnerability there's all these different types of identities as long as those identities are alive, everything will feed in to them. Yeah, so this monster quote-unquote is who we think we have to be in order to be safe, and when we start adding all these things into our routines, we then use those things in order to continue playing out these roles and these identities, unless we do get lucky and something does kind of help us have an identity shift.
Speaker 2:A lot of the time, this happens by accident, right, like when people go on vacations, for example. People say this all the time. Maybe we've talked about this before, but a lot of Americans will like go to Europe and they'll be like oh my God, all my symptoms are gone, like I had IBS and I don't have it, or I have gluten intolerance and I don't have it there. And a lot of people attribute this to the food. And yes, the food in the US is very it's got a lot of concerning things and physical body is a real thing. Obviously, different ingredients are going to have a different impact on the body.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's not the whole picture. Yeah, you're also leaving your environment, where you're so accustomed to your stressors. Yeah, you've learned how to adapt to the people around you. You've learned how to adapt to your physical environment, your work, your so many things. You're leaving the country and you're going into a completely new place with completely different cues, probably with different people, and if not different people, then different versions of people, because they're on vacation too, or they're leaving their environment too, and all of these things are changing. It changes the way that our bodies respond. It changes stress. It changes who we think we have to. It changes stress. It changes who we think we have to be, or these protective identities that we have. A lot of. That shifts when we go abroad or go on some type of vacation, and then, when we come back, it's like oh, it's back, it's like a rubber band.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I've definitely had the urge and I know other people have just go, just go, and I, I guess my question is what for people who don't have the ability to like just pack up and leave and start a new life somewhere else, or even go on a European vacation or you know whatever, like I guess, because I do think there's huge shifts when you get out of your natural routine environment and all that, but what are things we can be doing in our day-to-day life to naturally see those shifts?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it's more important to do it regardless of whether or not you're going on any type of trip, because the truth is, if you leave and you stay in that place long enough, most of your patterns will return, and if not, then when you come back they're going to return right Like it's.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it can be a true shift, but sometimes it's not a true shift, and it's really important that we can actually have the skills and the tools to work through these things.
Speaker 2:And the first thing that we have to become aware of is who this person is, that we've learned to become in order to feel safe and loved and to belong. And there's a lot of aspects of our personality that are adapted for safety, love and belonging, but there's going to be certain parts of us that are much more in fear than other parts. So you know, for example, if somebody is like, okay, I want to understand my identities, I want to understand how I'm trying to earn safety, love and belonging, one of the first things we can do is just ask where are you noticing a pattern in your life, in the way that you're feeling or the way that you seem to think that things work out? So, for example, right. Somebody might be like my business is failing, my relationship is failing and what else is there? Like I just put in an offer for a house and I didn't show right.
Speaker 1:Okay, everything's a shit show.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So, right, like, maybe somebody says it like that, or maybe even somebody is just like, what's going on in my life right now is like you know, these three things aren't working out. Okay, well, let's see if there's any common feeling about these three things and you might kind of realize, wow, I feel like a failure in all three of them. I feel like a failure in a lot of areas of my life. Okay, well, this feeling of I'm a failure, there might be some type of identity around that or some type of self-protective role around that, meaning where did we learn this, how is it still playing out and how? I always try to be careful about the way that I say this, because I don't want anybody to think that they're doing it on purpose. But what is actually benefiting me about feeling like a failure?
Speaker 1:Yeah, which there are benefits to our behaviors or patterns or whatever that we don't want. There's always something there. We learned it for a reason at some point. I wanted to ask you about identity. So you're talking about this identity at the root and talking about these shifts. A lot of times there's a fighting back if we're actually starting to see the shift, kind of like that rubber band. No, no, no, no. This has been working for us for so long like let's, what are you doing? So what are your recommendations for people like that period trying to get you talked about a version of yourself? I literally wrote it down. Wait, I want to say what you actually said without an identity shift, we don't actually get to experience another version of ourselves in this life. So when you're actually trying to have that identity shift to get to this new version of yourself which what do you call that? Because it could be higher self, true self. I feel like there's a lot of terms that are being said that mean the same thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first thing that comes to mind for me is a you that feels safe enough to be who you are.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of words for like a go-to thing, but that's to me feels like the best representation of it.
Speaker 1:No, I agree, because I think there's so many different methods and not to get down a rabbit hole, but there's a lot of things that are being said that I think I've just found You're saying the same thing in different fonts. What I want to talk about is that resistance. When that resistance is coming up for people, when they're actually starting to see those shifts happening and letting go of those old versions, patterns, behaviors that used to make them feel safe, how do they? I'm going to open the floor because I am not a therapist, but resistance is the topic that I'm trying to word a question around.
Speaker 2:When people are experiencing resistance, the short answer is the moment of change is actually going to happen when you respond differently in real life. And to go a little bit further, it's going to be when not when you're fearless, not when you're perfectly figured out, not when you know for sure that if you take a different action, that everything's going to be dandy full body level that being who you are and the consequences that might come with being who you are is more beneficial than being the self-protective version of yourself. So what that might look like in real life is if you're somebody who doesn't cry in front of other people, you don't feel comfortable crying in front of other people, because maybe crying for you is like the ultimate form of this person is going to think that I'm not strong and they're going to leave me. Crying equals weakness, equals abandonment. I can't handle that, my body cannot handle that and a lot of people will do this, like you mentioned earlier, like the inner child work, they'll have these emotional releases, some emotional processing going on. All that stuff is really important, but it's actually in that moment, a lot of the time, when that person actually decides, in a real situation with a real human being that you're really, you really have a relationship with. You know what I really want to just cry right now, and I know that if I cry, this person might actually leave. I know that if I cry, this person might not respond well, but the price that I'm paying for being this person who holds it all together is costing me more than this person leaving would cost me Is me being honest about who I am actually worth the risk, and that's not an easy place to get to, and it can feel like the scariest thing and the most freeing thing at the same time, because most of the time, our worst fear doesn't come true.
Speaker 2:Most of the time, it's not going to be as bad as you think it's going to be, because the part of you that's predicting the worst case scenario is still five years old, seven years old, 13 years old. It's the part of you that's still predicting the worst case scenario is still five years old, seven years old, 13 years old. It's the part of you that's still predicting the worst case scenario because of something that happened in the past and this moment isn't that moment, but we feel like it's going to be, and then we spend years trying to make sure that moment never happens again. And so that type of scenario where you just cry anyway, or apply it to any pattern that you have in your life it's not just the crying, it's the. I don't need to be this person anymore to be safe.
Speaker 1:How can people in your life obviously you can't put this on other people, but you also. We choose who we let into our life, right? I mean maybe not family, but like friendships, romantic partners. So how can like choosing the relationships that we get to actually choose in our life, whatever they are? How can we go about that in a way that we are setting ourselves up for truly being ourselves and feeling safe to do so?
Speaker 2:So how do we choose people in our lives that we feel safe around? Yeah.
Speaker 1:I guess because a lot of people just kind of they just want people. The idea of being alone or not having people is so terrifying, whether it's friends or romantic relationships or anything like that. We just need to feel like everybody's. I got to have my tribe air quotes but a lot of times I've just witnessed people's tribe is like that is not a healthy tribe to be in. No wonder who can feel safe being around that. So how do we help ourselves? Instead of choosing things that in the past would have? I guess repeating the cycle I guess that's what I'm trying to get at is. A lot of times we repeat the cycle, the narrative that we're stuck in from the past, but we make it happen over and over again for ourselves. So, in this shift, what are things we can be doing to actually allow ourselves to create an environment or relationships that are conducive to allow that to happen for us?
Speaker 2:We have to take responsibility fully for every relationship we've ever had.
Speaker 2:We have to take responsibility fully for every relationship we've ever had, and especially the ones we left feeling like a victim and taking full responsibility for not every relationship you chose right, like, for example, you didn't choose what parents you're born to, right relationships or friendships. It's not just oh, they did this to me. I have trauma from this person and now I'm spending the rest of my year or my life recovering. It's also why did I need that person? What part of me actually needed that person? Even if they were toxic, even if they hurt me, what part of me was more safe, felt more safe, being the person in the relationship who was the good person? They hurt me.
Speaker 2:I'm the victim, and it's not that that person didn't actually hurt you.
Speaker 2:But is there a part of you that feels safer being in a dynamic like that, because maybe you're emotionally unavailable, or maybe being in a relationship with someone who treats you well is actually putting you in this position where you feel so seen and not in a good way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe somebody does fully show up for you and that's actually terrifying, taking full responsibility for the relationships that we've been in and the role that we played and why we might have needed a certain dynamic to play out in these relationships, because if we don't see that, then those things stay under the surface, in the dark, and we play them out again because they're still in the dark. It's not until you bring something into the light that we have the ability to change it. And so you're asking, like you know, what kind of work can we do to bring people into our lives that are actually going to be supportive and we can have a healthy relationship with? And we need to do our own inner work, and our best reference is the relationships that we currently have in our lives and the relationships we've had in the past. That is our mirror, that is our ability to kind of go in a little deeper and know ourselves a bit more.
Speaker 1:That's good, that's really good. I also want to talk about this weird energy that we're supposed to achieve healing. There is a level of healing where it stops everything solved and fixed and so I want to get your input on how these shifts evolve over time, and are we always going to be seeing these shifts of ourself, and if so, how do we welcome that in a positive way versus letting that like freak the fuck out of us?
Speaker 2:That there's always going to be a shift?
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, like, we're not ever going to achieve healing, Like as long as we're alive, shit's going to be happening and we're going to hopefully be evolving. Just the evolution through your life is kind of what I'm asking about People who think they can achieve being healed, which I don't know. Maybe you're like no, Liz, you can Try harder babes. But yeah, that's my question. I think.
Speaker 2:First, you have to ask yourself what do I think being healed is going to get me, what do I think is going to happen, or how am I going to feel once I'm healed? Because whatever the answer to that is, is the thing that you want access to. And what would you say for yourself, since you feel like you relate to this pattern?
Speaker 1:I feel like this is borderline an interview and a therapy.
Speaker 2:I think like I feel this either. By the way, I feel this too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well, I think that's a great call. We'll go to that after, but I'll put a pin in it. I think it's a really great thing that, like, therapists and coaches are still learning and evolving, and the information they give us and the help they give us is wonderful. But I think we can put those people on a pedestal. My mentor, I can put her on a pedestal so easily and she's like nah, babe, I'm still working on my stuff, I'm not Jesus.
Speaker 1:So I mean for me, probably why relationships and stuff even came up naturally in this interview is I think there's a level of security that I want to achieve and I just don't. I want to genuinely get to a place where I do not care what people think, because there's been a pattern, whether it's romantically or just I mean we've talked about this in my therapy session I just care so intensely about external validation. So I think I don't think saying I'll never care what people think, but I think if I could genuinely get to a spot where I'm just okay, cool, great. If I could genuinely get to a spot where I'm just okay, cool, great, that would be a sign of I don't think I'd feel healed, but I feel shifts had happened for me, I guess in a really good way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because there's a couple layers right. There's the you caring a lot about what people think, putting a lot of weight on what other people think, but then there's also, on top of that, how you perceive yourself for being somebody who cares other people think. But then there's also, on top of that, how you perceive yourself for being somebody who cares what people think. Does that make sense? That got meta.
Speaker 2:Say it again yeah, you just having this experience of putting a lot of weight on what other people think of you, which is one thing, right. But then there's this second layer on top of that, which is Right. But then there's this second layer on top of that, which is Liz seeing Liz in a certain light or having that pattern. To begin with, let me ask you this Ready Go?
Speaker 1:ahead.
Speaker 2:I'm ready. All right, if you kind of stepped outside of yourself for a second and you see the version of you who cares a lot about what people think. What is your perception of her it?
Speaker 1:makes me sad, like, desperate, like. My perception of her is just like reeking of desperation and in a way that's heartbreaking to me.
Speaker 2:So she's desperate. Yes, yeah, and you're saying it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is there any judgment. Yeah, a little bit Like why can't you just be good with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the heartbreak is one thing, right, that's like one layer of emotion. And then the judgment of why can't you be good with you is another emotion or experience, right, that judgment itself, to me, is more of where the work is than in you actually caring what other people think. Okay, because at the end of the day, you're a human being and we're social creatures. Right, and caring what other people think is something that, unless you are clinically a sociopath, yeah, you struggle with to some degree, and so maybe you, you know, if we could like find the stats and find the average of how much people care about other people, maybe you would be above, maybe you would be the same. I don't really know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's fair right, like it's not, like this doesn't exist and you just have to accept it, move on and like never think about it again. You're experiencing that more than you want to experience it, right? But instead of going straight to how do I stop caring what people think I shouldn't care, what people think this is wrong, this is too much. Instead just noticing that you are judging yourself for caring instead of actually meeting yourself there.
Speaker 1:That's creating a lot of resistance yeah, I haven't even like thought about that. That's wild. Which obviously the way this interview is gone, like I because of the questions and stuff like that, you know I go more into like very intellectualizing things.
Speaker 1:So I know, just talking to you. That that's me thinking. What I should do is not care what people think of me, and then that's where, like the butting happens. I get really frustrated with myself for caring I. Then that's where the butting happens. I get really frustrated with myself for caring and I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 1:Obviously, we used me as an example, but my sister made the point because over-therapizing everything or over-awareness, a lot of times I feel like we have just normal human, innately human reactions and because of all the mental health awareness and all the like stuff that we see online and everything, we therapize those reactions instead of being you're not going to be walking around like smelling the roses every day, like, I guess, the what we're fed of, like true happiness or whatever. So I do want to turn it on its head a little bit and ask you. I do want to know like what? Not your way past timelines, but the things that you've really had to work and overcome, not only through being a therapist but doing your own internal work. Because I know we put our therapists and our coaches or whoever on a pedestal celebrities, whatever, whoever you put on a pedestal and it's like they're still a fucking human. So I want to know for you what you've had to overcome or what shifts you've had to work on with yourself, just to humanize you a little bit.
Speaker 2:I actually don't have any problems, never have, okay cool. Thanks guys for listening. My name is MindBodyNina. See you guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's MindBodyNina and she's kind of like Jesus, so yeah, no, this is a great question and I actually don't think anybody in any podcast has ever asked me this, so this is actually really cool. The first thing I'll say is the only reason why I feel like I can articulate things and explain them is because I've had to work through all of these things myself. I don't even talk about things that I haven't worked through myself. It would feel like such a foreign, odd topic. It would be like me trying to teach somebody how to change a car tire which I don't know how to do at all. So that's the first thing.
Speaker 2:I think the first thing that came to mind when you were asking me that is the challenge of always wanting to be on step 10 and having to accept that I'm on step one or two or three or not step 10. Because my experience throughout my life has been you know how people talk about your greatest strength is your greatest weakness too. I feel in my life I had a lot of trauma growing up and it was back to back to back to back to back, like I felt, like I never got to come up for air and I felt myself I want to say in like middle school and high school. It was even before that, but I think that was the peak for me. Like middle school and high school. It was even before that, but I think that was the peak for me. Like middle school and high school, I could feel myself really spiraling a lot and I let myself spiral. I went into a really really deep depression and I was comfortable there. I wanted to be there. I didn't want to be out of it. I made it my own identity to even be there. Want to be out of it. I made it my own identity to even be there.
Speaker 2:Something eventually kind of hit me where I was like if I stay here, I'm not going to be able to live the life that I want and I don't ever want to be. This is in my high school mind right. Like I don't want to be a 20 year old, I don't want to be a 25 year old, I don't want to be a 30 yearyear-old, 35, 40, 50-year-old who has the same problems that I see my family having or I see the people around me having. So if I stay here then I might end up in that same situation and I don't want to do that.
Speaker 2:That realization gave me a lot of strength to keep going and to change a lot of things and to move. It made me start doing a lot of inner work, but I think it also put me in a mindset where I ran so fast and I took so many steps so quickly that I didn't fully accept that the life that I lived for so long was so painful and disappointing and hurtful and shitty. Yeah, I was trying to escape it for so long that I didn't fully accept it and I still, to this day, sometimes find myself trying to get out of shitty scenarios that I don't fully accept where I'm at. So that's something that's been a really big challenge, but I've seen it more clearly over the years, which has made it, you know, a bit I don't want to say easier to work through, but it's allowed me to work through it.
Speaker 1:I do want to ask, like when you started seeing that shift, at whatever age you were, and you're like I don't want to stay here, and you started doing a lot of work, were like what did that look like for you? Were you doing what we're seeing people doing, intellectualizing it, or were you just reaching at anything that you thought? Because you, it sounds like you were a teenager or a kid when you started doing this, so, which is awesome and really scary at the same time so yeah what were you reaching for in that time?
Speaker 1:I, I guess.
Speaker 2:Google was everything. I think it realized that you could Google anything and I never really fully processed that before. So I think I was maybe 16. I want to say I was like 16. And I was in a relationship that was just like I was with this guy who, like, cheated on me with 15 girls at this rave or something Lovely, and I was just going through it and I remember having this moment where I was like I don't know what to do. I don't know who to talk to. I don't know who to go to for this. All my friends hated this guy, absolutely despised him. So I didn't feel like I could go to my friends. They would have just been like we told you not to date him. I'm like, oh shit, they were right. I wasn't going to tell my parents and I didn't know who else to talk to. So I was like you know what?
Speaker 2:I think I can Google this and I don't remember what came up, but I remember I would find these like blog posts and stuff that were just talking about like 10 signs you're in a toxic relationship or whatever they were. And even though the internet is the wild wild west and you don't know what you're going to get out of it, I actually think it was nice to have somewhere to go that had steps and proof that other people were going through the same thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do think I agree with you with that, like I mean honestly anything you. I do think I agree with you with that, like I mean honestly anything you're struggling with. I feel like you can find some type of podcast episode on it and I had that realization recently that I was like you're not the only one, it's okay, other people are dealing with this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's important in the beginning.
Speaker 1:But after so much time it's like, okay, well, what are we doing? I just think it's really cool too that you point out that those things from back then still come up today. You've done a lot of work and you probably handle it a whole lot better today. I do want to ask you about present day, I mean honestly, how you handle that stuff when it does still come up, knowing what you know now and what you've embodied now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. Can I add something to what I was saying before? First, yes, of course. So I found Google. I asked Google a lot of questions. That felt like the only thing I had.
Speaker 2:But I also ended up going to a therapist and I wanted to go to therapy. Not everybody wants to go to therapy, especially at that age. Therapist and I wanted to go to therapy. Not everybody wants to go to therapy, especially at that age, but I really wanted to go and I didn't really have the best experience with my therapist, but it kind of introduced me to therapy. And then when I was in college I think it was sophomore or junior year of college I had a therapist who I didn't want because he was a guy and I didn't want to work with a guy therapist. I just was like that's uncomfortable, I don't know how I'm going to feel, whatever. But I didn't get to choose because it was just the way that it was set up at my school and I hear him call my name and I was like, oh, of course, the only guy here. I got him, I don't want to be a therapist. And he comes out and I go in and I'm just like kind of like awkwardly sitting there.
Speaker 2:Long story short, this man completely changed my life, and one of the reasons why was because he pushed me so much to do things that made me uncomfortable, and I think that that can trigger a lot of people, and I think that if I was the wrong person in that room, it would have gone the opposite direction. Yeah, but he really really pushed me, and I think that's something that's so underrated in society these days is like being pushed a bit, not over, pushed to the point where you spiral, but being pushed just enough that you have to work through all the way through stuff. Yeah, instead of this, like, well, are you comfortable with this? Okay, that's fine, we won't go there at all if you're not comfortable. And like doing this thing where we kind of beat around the bush for a really long time because we're not comfortable with things, right, yeah, I agree with that, because I've had a lot of therapists.
Speaker 1:I've had a lot of therapists. No, but like just, I do feel like, after so many sessions, I'm like what the hell are we doing. But like just, I do feel like, after so many sessions, I'm like what the hell are we doing? I feel it's just like Liz's one hour event session and then I go home. I want to see actual change and I do agree with you that I think getting pushed and being hey, no, this sucks, but do you want to keep living the way that you're living? No, okay, let's do something about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's. If that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1:It's like what are we doing then? Right, you're going to therapy for a reason. You're not. Typically, we go to therapy because we don't like the way that we're showing up currently in life, or we recognize we're doing the same shit over and over again. So if I mean, I know some people go to therapy and they don't want to go to therapy, but most people who voluntarily go to therapy and it's not an hour to talk with your best friend, you know, or the person who's forced to listen to you actually want to go in there and get something out of it.
Speaker 1:So, I agree with you, though, having a therapist that pushes you, or even what you just said, however many minutes ago, about owning the relationships, even where you feel like a victim, like people don't want to hear that, but it's. You were in that situation. It takes two to tango. You know, even if you were a victim, even if it was the worst relationship ever, there was something there that kept you there.
Speaker 2:And people push you in your relationships and your friendships too, is important, and the reality is that you will lose friendships, you'll lose relationships, you'll lose you know.
Speaker 2:You might have like a week where you hate your therapist, that you know what I changed my mind about her.
Speaker 2:I don't like her anymore, like she sucks, like she doesn't get me and like the reality is, whether it's your relationships, your therapist, whatever it is challenges being present and having people who can work through them and being able to develop the skills communication skills, the emotional regulation skills to be able to work through these things.
Speaker 2:That, to me, is what actually makes people happier in life, because then you're front and center with life, knowing that you have the ability to face it and get through it, instead of us being stuck in freeze all the time because we weren't taught the skills, we don't know how to handle a lot of different situations and everything's kind of a lot, everything's overwhelming, and so the only option we have is to kind of like hide from life or run from life, and then that becomes depression, that becomes anxiety that just never really goes away. And again, we don't have to pathologize those things. That just never really goes away. And again. We don't have to pathologize those things. Anxiety is also a natural part of life, but it gets out of control when we don't have the skills to face hard things.
Speaker 1:This is my last thing I wanted to hit, but you just brought it up. I really want to get your input on it. Nervous system regulation, emotional regulation I feel like those are very hot topic words and some people, even myself, sometimes I'm like how the hell do I regulate? Everyone's like you're dysregulated or whatever, and so I just think that'd be helpful. What is this nervous system regulation that we hear so much about, or emotional regulation? Yeah, that'll be my last question for you, and then I'll wrap it up so I can let you go. I don't want to hold you up.
Speaker 2:Awesome, I have time, we're good. But nervous system regulation to me means different things when it comes out of different people's mouths. I don't think nervous system regulation actually counts as a formal term. I think it's a term that's become very popular and people think they know what it means.
Speaker 2:I think, as somebody who works with our survival responses, when I hear the term nervous system regulation, my understanding of it is that we have a flexible nervous system, which just means that a regulated nervous system is a nervous system that can go into fight or flight and then can come back into safety and connection. It can go into freeze and then it can go into fight or flight and then it can come back. It's flexible. So it's not a nervous system that is so small in terms of capacity that as soon as we get stressed, we're being shot out of that window of tolerance. We're being shot out of that safe and connected window and then we're being thrown into fight or flight, and then getting out of fight or flight takes a really long time because we don't know how to come back. We don't feel safe enough, like you know. Yada, yada, yada. Yeah, a regulated nervous system is the ability to just go in and out of different states.
Speaker 1:That's a really, really good point, and I think nobody would think of nervous system regulation Because people are like we should be avoiding freeze fight or flight. How do we stay out of those? And if we're out of those, we're regulated, so I think that's super helpful, which feeds back into that. Let me achieve my most perfect self. That's completely not realistic, but it's not that we're never not going to experience those things. It's just how quickly can we return to Okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how? How can you return and how long does it take you to return? Do you have the skills, you have the tools to be able to come back and do you have literally the like, the capacity to be able to hold things? Is your capacity narrow? And if you have trauma, the more trauma you have, the more narrow your window of tolerance is going to be. But if you get up, maybe you eat your breakfast, you get ready for work and then, I don't know, your dog runs out into the street or something. Is that going to throw your whole day off? Is it going to throw your whole week off? Or is it something that's like oh my God, this is crazy, this is so stressful. You get your dog back in, you're stressed for the next like 15 minutes, but then you kind of know how to come back and, like your system just kind of naturally has the flexibility to come back into balance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay has the flexibility to come back into balance. Yeah, okay, you know, or is it something that your system has to take a whole week to recover from? And that's not bad right? It's just kind of showing what we can hold.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and I think that's a good point to also say it's not bad, because we think of these things a lot of times in very black and white ways. Yeah, so I think like that's not necessarily bad. That's just where you are currently. Yeah, so I think like that's not necessarily bad. That's just where you are currently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I see these videos of people saying you know like you don't need nervous system regulation. People overhype nervous system regulation and I agree that if we're talking about nervous system regulation as a checklist of doing breath work and meditation and like feeling anything bad, yeah, and like taking your shoes off and going outside and grounding, like if we think of those things as regulation, we're not fully understanding because it's not about what you're doing, it's about your nervous system's flexibility and like capacity no, I'm glad we like finished with that.
Speaker 1:I think that's super helpful and beneficial to people. Yeah, I love this. I hope you enjoyed it too. I know I went over a little bit, but I want to let you plug your stuff really quick, like where you're at, what you're doing right now on Instagram.
Speaker 2:I'm at mindbodynina. My website is humansunpluggedcom, which is where, like my coaching is, you can find my community, my podcast, everything through there, and I'm mostly on Instagram. Yeah, she is.
Speaker 1:That's how I found her Awesome. Thank you so much, Nina. Thank you, Liz. This is so fun. Yeah, I had a blast.
Speaker 2:Me too.